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Since most of the comments deal with opinions about picketing, I'm not going to address each one, but a personal shout-out to Tim W. I appreciate your politeness, Tim, but you really have no idea what's going on. You are not directly involved in this strike, therefore your opinions are uninformed. If you can't see how your even-handed dissenting friend is creating a problem, I don't know what to say. But I think some of the things you've said need to be addressed. I do find it a bit ironic that you say this:
One thing that bothers me is that wanting to compromise is seen as going against the WGA. TO me, not wanting to compromise is going against worse. Negotiating IS compromising. Focus on the things that matter, and if the other side still won't budge, THEN stand firm. But refusing to budge on issues like reality television is stupid.
But that you then say this:
Quite frankly, other than calling Craig hypocritical, I haven't really seen anyone attempt to debate the actual thrust of what Craig posted. TO me, he's being a lot more even-handed about the situation than a lot of people who criticize him. He seems to be the one of the few who understands that the AMPTP will not negotiate on certain issues and keeping them on the table is hurting YOU GUYS. If they were important issues, I could understand it, but they're not.
Think about it for a minute. Then go read Josh's posts and cgeye's post. Then think about it some more.
The WGA has been on strike for over a month. I would say it's pretty much time to cut to the chase in the negotiations. Wouldn't you?
Strike forever! Actually, you need to realize that the AMPTP walked the fuck away. There ARE no negotiations because THEY WALKED AWAY. I don't think it can be made any clearer.
Mazin is saying what he feels, and banned one person who pissed him off. Let's not overstate things here. To me, and others, he has a point. I am amazed that people truly think that he is trying to screw the writers. I've looked over his posts and many of his comments, and all I see is a guy who simply has a different opinion on how to get what the WGA wants in this strike. He's still on your side. He still wants the writers to prevail. He just thinks there is a better way to go about doing that.
I really don't want to talk about Mazin anymore (feel free to blow off that particular steam all you want in the comments), but since he's positioned himself as the loyal opposition, I have to respond to this. You state "He's still on your side." See, Tim, you don't have a side. You're an interested bystander, nothing more. So you don't really know which side he's on, and if a goodly number of WGA members -- people who are out there every day picketing and supporting the leadership -- draw the same conclusions from Craig's words, maybe they have a point, dig? Maybe they see something that you don't see, because you don't have the same point of view.
Craig can say he wants us to prevail. He can say he's on our side. But then he posts something that's directly contradictory. He purports to be a writer, but he isn't using words very well.
From my vantage point, Craig is seeing how the negotiations are going and feels the need to try and change their course. That doesn't sound like someone who is against the writers. It sounds like someone who is very concerned for the writers, and doesn't just want to sit back and do nothing. You call it undermining. He calls it activism.
No. Activism is picketing. Activism is going to locations and talking to crew and locals. Activism is letting the late-night hosts know that if they do go back, it may not be easy for them. Activism is hearing Harlan Ellison speak about how far you have to go to get what you deserve, and what that fight really means.
Craig is concerned for himself. But let's not lie -- I'm concerned for myself, too. As Josh said, however, being out on the line has made me concerned for every one of those people I walk with every day. I'm concerned for the showrunners who walked away from their shows as episodes are being shot and posted. I'm concerned for the staff writers who are new to the business, and the assistants and future WGA members who will be affected by this contract, and who are out there picketing with us. I'm concerned for the animation writers who aren't getting residuals even as their properties -- the characters THEY CAME UP WITH -- adorn the wall of the fucking studio.
Now, you say that Craig wants to change the course of the negotiation. Any idea as to how? Or where to?
I thought not.
I know you don't realize or intend this, but offering your outsider advice is unbelievably insulting. I don't know how to make it any plainer than that.
However, since I said I would not censor this blog, feel free to comment on it however you like. I just can't respond to it anymore because that brick wall's really starting to hurt. I'm sure there are folks who will pick up the comment torch but I'm asking you to really think about what you're saying, and what you think it's achieving. Because honestly, I have no idea at this point. This isn't just about a labor negotiation, it's directly affecting US. I ask you to just keep that in mind. Because on other sites, it IS a more removed discussion. That's just not how I feel.
Anonymouse,
You'll always have a home here, my friend.
Anonymous,
Please forgive me if my comment about being difficult in the room angered you in any way. I rewrote the question three times to make sure there was no offensive language. I understand completely that your blog is not the room. I visit your blog, Jane Eppenson's and one called What It's Like. I don't visit Writer Action because, frankly, and this is lazy on my part...it's just too wordy. Anyway, maybe I used the wrong phrase but I just wondered in this internet age (when everything follows you around) if you think there's a possibility your own words could be used against you. Again, sincere apologies, if my original question angered you. I tried to be as benign as possible. I hope I succeeded this time.
I wasn't angry, I'm just a little confused about which words could be used against me. So if I answer based on what I THINK is on my blog -- nah. When in meetings, I still haven't seen any evidence that the internet matters at all. Hope that helps. And thanks for reading the blog. Hopefully, I will not always talk about the strike. But I keep getting pulled back in...
Jake Hollywood,
4. Must agree in principle to be the new voice of the Dodger. Scully out. Mazin in? OMFG!
NOT cool, man. In that case, I say STRIKE FOREVER! In the interest of full disclosure, however, I would say that about anyone replacing Vin.
John Beck,
Apology accepted. Don't worry about it.
Bill,
Pulp RULES!!!!!!
RDJ,
Stay strong, man. And thanks for posting.
np -- The Jakpot, "Throw Away Culture." How appropriate.
18 comments:
Mazin's apology reminds me of the joke which Billy Connolly used to tell about an Aberdeen wedding (for Aberdeen, think Alabama or somewhere similar).
The guests are assembled, hundreds of them. All of a sudden a man runs in, shouting, "You can all bugger off, there's no gonna be any wedding. The best man's fucked the bride."
Disgruntled, everyone gets up and starts to leave, just as the same man runs back in, even more excited than he was before. "It's okay, you can all sit back down, he's apologised."
Mazin shagged the bride, but it's all okay, because he's said sorry.
Kay,
I realize that my discussions have taken up an inordinate amount of space on your blog. I do apologize for that. As you say, I've never tried to appear as anything more than I am. An outsider, but I an more than an interested bystander. To me, these negotiations will have an affect on my future. If they didn't, then I wouldn't be offering up my opinion. I'm sorry you find it insulting, but I feel have a stake in these negotiations, just not as immediate as you. I relate it somewhat to your presidential elections. I don't have a vote, but being your closest, physically and otherwise, neighbour, I am affected by your elections, and have more than a passing interest on how they go. Hell, the world would be a vastly different place today if Gore was elected in the first place (oh, wait, he was, wasn't he?). With the WGA negotiations, though, it goes even one step further than that. I plan to one day be a member, so I feel my opinion is valid.
I agree that because I am not out on the line, and am not even in the same city, I cannot understand certain things as well as if I were, but sometimes a little distance helps give some perspective. However much I respect and understand you and Josh's (among others) stance, emotions are running extremely high, especially the closer to the strike you are. That often clouds, or shapes, judgment. I've seen it with other strikes, and I see the same thing happening here. It's one reason unions, and guilds, want their members to picket when on strike. It pushes them to the extremes. That's great for keeping your members behind you, but not great for clear thinking.
Now as to the negotiations themselves, I understand completely that the AMPTP walked away, and I also understand they are not exactly being fair, to put it mildly. But if the other side starts to walk in one directions, you don't walk in the other just to spite them. And no one, outside of the negotiating committees really knows what's going on behind closed doors. Both sides are trying to spin things to their end. Sure, I'm more likely to believe the WGA, but in a situation like this, you take what either side says with a grain of salt.
One last thing. Craig is no more my friend than Josh or you are (as I don't know any of you). In fact, I've had more discussions with you two than Craig. I simply felt he was being attacked somewhat unjustly so I defended him, since he wasn't here to do it himself. I didn't mean to spend so much time and space doing it. As I said, I don't agree with everything he says, I don't agree with his film choices and I certainly don't agree with his politics (from what I have been told about them).
Perhaps one day, when I've achieved my goal of becoming a working screenwriter, I might be able to meet you and some of the others whose blogs I read. I've certainly found it incredibly interesting, and somewhat surreal, to be able to have these discussions with people like yourself. The internet certainly has changed the landscape for communicating. Just to meander a little, after I graduated from film school, I took a crack at becoming a screenwriter, and didn't have nearly the resources I have today. There was email, but not everyone had it. There certainly weren't blogs, from which to learn not only the craft, but also the business. I just find it truly amazing. It's made me feel more connected to the business, which has, if nothing else, inspired me.
I wanted to end this discussion on a positive note. I think we've pretty much run the Craig topic into the ground. I look forward to reading more of your posts and good luck.
if you wanted to end on a positive note, you probably shouldn't have suggested that all that picketing has clouded her thinking.
If you're not in the fight, you can't claim to have any present/future stake or interest. You can offer observations, support, and/or criticism - and that's about it.
jim adler
I'm telling you that the AMPTP is out to ruin everything sacred and good, including the Dodgers. and putting in Mazin as "the voice" would just about kill me...
Now I read that Craig is "apologizing" for his words and actions being turned against him? Say, what?! Like his words and actions weren't damaging to those of us out on the lines everyday?
His poor, pitiful me act is just self-serving. But then again, that's just Craig being Craig I guess.
Back to the Dodgers: only 66 days to catchers and pitchers report for spring training. Which means Vin can't be far behind. Yippee.
Who knows, maybe there'll be a signed deal by then. And a good one for the WGA.
Jim,
I believe I ended my post on a positive note. Hopefully Kay did, too.
I also don't really think it's up to you to decide whether I can claim to have a stake in anything. Thankfully, I live in a country where each person decides that for themselves.
"I also don't really think it's up to you to decide whether I can claim to have a stake in anything. Thankfully, I live in a country where each person decides that for themselves."
Right, and so does Jim and he decided, for himself, that you ended your comment on a negative note. That's his observation - it's like a note on a script, you can agree or disagree, but in the end if you keep getting the same note over and over, it ain't the people giving the notes, it's the work.
Classic straw man argument - Jim's not telling you you can't say what you want, that you're not free . . . he's simply using the same freedom you enjoy to call bullshit on something you wrote, get me?
You have the right to say what you want and we have the right to agree or disagree, no one is taking anything away from you . . . we're not arguing about that basic freedom, just whether or not you know what you're talking about or whether or not you ended on a negative note with regard to picketing affecting clear thinking . . .
And I would agree that it's neither a substantiated claim nor an informed one . . . I mean, unless you've spent a long time on a picket line, how would you know?
And yeah, it seems to me you're reacting becuz you feel like Craig is being bullied or something, and that you should stand up for him, and because Josh Olson and Kay use stronger language than Craig does, harsh language, even, they must be the bullies and Craig the reasonable one.
Craig's not being bullied - far from it.
And it seems to me you're missing a lot of what this strike is about - maybe just spending time at United Hollywood and watching some of the youtube videos there would change your perception, I dunno . . . but there's enough information out there, really.
"I simply felt he was being attacked somewhat unjustly so I defended him, since he wasn't here to do it himself."
Craig is not banned from coming to this blog to defend himself. On the other hand, he has silently banned numerous critics on his blog. Who knows how many? I know of four. I'm sure there are others.
Which makes him a cunty fuck.
As if there wasn't enough from the AMPTP to piss the WGA, along comes this gem:
AMPTP Discovers a Cash Cow, aka "The Internet"
Tim
I say this was the utmost respect. Perhaps it is the kind of wisdom reserved for an apprentice who might work under me. I certainly know this may not be taken well, but I hope you'll take it in the spirit given.
From what I have read of your well-meaning posts - my suggestion is that you don't have enough experience and wisdom in the WGA matter. (Neither do I but these people are my peers) I think this is why you're getting hammered a bit. I've been to your web site. I see you have a bunch of scripts. This is not an attack on your skill. It's just some unsolicited advice.
Please understand, my experience comes from writing music, editing music and working with many, many directors and film makers over a long period of time. I didn't get there by accident. There are plenty of people more talented than me, but what I have learned is something that takes about ten years or so. It's diplomacy and the wisdom to sit back and learn how to deal with 'the big boys'. (apologies Kay, i don't mean that as anything but an illustration)
I hope you can digest this for a minute or two. It's not my place to tell you but I imagine it's a hit that might be good for you to understand.
As a further illustration. I have a dear composer friend. This guy is a genius. I have never used that word loosely. When he was young (23) he'd tell directors that they were wrong, or he would belittle them if they didn't like his themes. This eventually labeled him as 'difficult'. 10-15 years later he doesn't work much. But he's now adopted a generous, patient zen attitude toward people. I continually push him toward jobs when I find someone looking for a composer. (Over myself who is looking for jobs as a composer) So that's my little parable for you. It's kind of why I was passively-aggressively pestering you about Platoon.
I am reading a stubborn, disrespectful attitude in your arguments/defenses. I don't think you mean it to come of that way. You admit that
"Perhaps one day, when I've achieved my goal of becoming a working screenwriter....."
As you admit your youth, understand that you've got a long way to go in learning how to work with writers, directors, film editors and studio execs. No matter how well you write if you don't learn even some false humility you're gonna get trampled.
There is only one historical figure I admire who had the biggest ego ever. His name was Beethoven. He went to Vienna at 17 and took lessons from the masters. Not to learn anything but to show them they had nothing to teach him. There are plenty of figures in this business whose egos are more accomplished than their chops. That's one reason why there's so much insecurity in this business. You'll need to learn to deal with them and everyone in between. My advice to you is you sit back and watch how it's done for a while. I speak from personal experience. There's no name calling going on.
anon,
my favorite apology is from Another Woman.
"I ACCEPT YOUR CONDEMNATION"
Although I've been audio-booking Pillars of The Earth. The evil protagonist Earl raids a town. kills women, children, and men, He does it illegally. Then he begs confession from the just-as-evil bishop. After confession the Earl feels better about having pillaged the town and raped the women - because he was offered absolution.
I'm not judging his apology. I just think he lacks the brains/experience of an elder he could benefit from. There are a lot of smart, really smart gurus in this business. Craig needs to get himself one.
I harped on that for a while in my early posts. they were also.... ignored. I had suggested that he get a group of writers before his next post. That was after the marvelous Magic Cake post. I suggested that he compose with a group since he was getting quoted in the WSJ and other places.
whatever.
[something absolutely, positively not about the strike]
Confidential to Josh:
Dude, a ways back I read on the Internets about the tight group of actors, writers, directors and producers that were called the Seven Bright Young Men. Shatner and Ellison and the crew of OUTER LIMITS were part of that, I think. Have you ever heard of that conglomeration, and if so, are any stories out and published about those early California filmed TV days? I think Matheson or Beaumont might have also hung with them.
Joshua,
Perhaps you need to reread my post. Jim has every right to say that he felt my post ended on a negative note. What I took issue with was this statement:
"If you're not in the fight, you can't claim to have any present/future stake or interest. You can offer observations, support, and/or criticism - and that's about it"
He's telling me what I can and cannot do. He's saying I can't claim to have a stake in something. He then tells me what I can do. Whether that's what he meant or not, is not the issue. That's what he wrote. And I was a lot more polite about it than I could have been, and more polite than he was.
And what this strike is about is different for each person. I've supported the strike from day one and defended the WGA (and many of you) on other movie sites. Whether I should have defended Craig or not is up for debate. I felt he was being attacked behind his back, which I took issue with. As I said, emotions are running high, and a lot of people seem to be on the attack. It's one of the negative things about a strike.
Anonymouse,
Hey, it's Craig's blog. I generally make it a rule to approach the blog owner with some respect. I do it here and any other blog I go to. Perhaps that's just me.
Scott,
I'm a big boy. I can handle attacks. And no, I'm not youthful, not by a long shot. Just taking a second crack at this after doing other things and having a couple of other careers. I will fully admit that I am stubborn, but I haven't noticed anyone here who doesn't fit that description, as well. Strangely, I feel I've been more respectful that I have gotten. You don't agree. That's fine. As for humility, you seem to believe you know me simply by reading a few of my posts during a rather heated discussion. Now who is the naive one? I've had a couple of careers and dozens of jobs in my lifetime, and I've never once heard anyone having a problem with my attitude or lack of humility. And I've worked in the film industry under directors and editors. I'm not worried. I'm actually a very jokey, friendly and easy going guy in person. I've been told by many that doesn't come across in my posts. I guess it's my duel personality coming through. Who knows?
I appreciate the advice. Believe me, I don't think I know it all. It's one reason I frequent blogs of those who are successful in the industry. To learn.
Umm, Tim, my original statement still holds . . .
Jim can decide you don't have a stake in the fight, you can claim you do . . . in no way is he saying you don't have the freedom to express or decide for yourself, he's just calling bullshit on your claim -
It's like this, a guy can claim to be influencing the President with his brainwaves . . . he can decide that for himself, and we have the freedom to say, uh, no you can't say that becuz it's not true . . .
Jim's not saying it becuz he's taking away your freedom of decision making or expression, he's saying it becuz it seems that your claim has no foundation.
that's the difference, get me?
And we're going in circles, so I leave it thusly . . .
CGeye,
You are, perhaps, thinking of the Green Hand, a group of writers including several of those you mentioned (no Shatner). As Harlan is loathe to traverse the tubes of the internets beyond his own site, you would be best served by going directly to his site, http://harlanellison.com/heboard/unca.htm
and asking him directly. He said he'd be happy to answer you there....
Looks like the WGA leadership has adopted the Craig Mazin Plan of Attack...
the new plan???
and my comment on it (which maybe I'm missing the point, but....)
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of this idea...
Jake,
nothing comes up with your links....
yeah Jake, what happened to your blog?
Interesting to know.
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