Because this IS the last time I'll comment on Mazin's site, unless I'm commenting on one of his posts. But the array of clowns posting comments? No more.
Michael Sterling asks,
Not that I want this site to be the Rebellion to Craig's Empire, but could you give a primer or something on what exactly your problem is with Craig and what's the deal with the whole Josh/Craig thing. I read his site, but not the comments. So while I agree and disagree with various things on his site, I feel like I'm missing a lot. And then I come here and you seem really pissed with him. Unreasonably so based on what he's posted. So what's the deal?
A lot of what has happened on that site did happen in the comments. The short version goes something like this. Up until a few days ago, Craig was not involved with what was happening on the strike lines but he felt compelled to post erroneous rumors and, what looked to me and others, like anti-guild propaganda.
He has every right to post whatever he wants, and I have every right to disagree with it. For example, I don't think it's appropriate to do anything right now but show support for the leadership and unity to the guild. I was critical of the lead-up to the strike. So was Craig, but for different reasons. Craig has not changed his position. I have. This, in part, led the tinfoils on his site to eviscerate me. These aren't stupid people, and I think they were being maliciously disingenuous to not understand the difference between the period prior to the strike, and the actual fucking strike.
Craig sat back and let it happen, after maintaining over and over that he wouldn't allow attacks. Then he banned Josh, but the tinfoils stayed. So what that looks like to me is, Craig fosters a certain opinion on his site. That's fine, of course; it's his site. But he should be honest about it, and he wasn't.
I thought honesty was sort of the point of having a blog, but maybe I'm just naive. Craig's tinfoils don't seem to understand what constitutes honesty. In fact, they think honesty is only positivity. These two statements are both honest:
"I sold a pilot to a network, and the executive loved it. This year rocks."
"So I didn't sell the pilot. This year sucks."
The latter statement, according to the tinfoils, is seething with bitterness. So yes, honesty will get you killed. But I'm not going to turn into Craig and be aggressively disingenuous and, well, dishonest. My agenda is not to convince people that things are rockin' along quite nicely if they aren't. That was never the point of starting a blog.
Apparently, Wednesday was "Blogger Day" at my gate. Writer/bloggers were contacted via e-mail to show up and... I dunno. Meet, I guess? Talk to fans? I really don't know. Craig is a part of that community, so he showed up. I think it was his second day on the line. I, on the other hand, picket at that gate four days a week.
It was fucking PACKED with people, mostly people who wouldn't pay attention to the #$%&%## light, but lots of people nonetheless, and that led to a lot of honking. Yesterday, the celebrity writer/bloggers who ARE picketing every day -- like Jane Espenson -- went back to their regular stomping grounds. Those who just picket when there's a photo op weren't out there today. There were about eight of us -- the same core group who usually pickets every fucking day. And a Smallville fan named Jim came out to picket before going in to work. There's nothing cooler than being supported by the fans and the public. Nothing. Every wave, every smile, every tap of the horn... it makes a difference. It strengthens our resolve, which IS important. It's hilarious that the same people who equate my honesty with bitterness are so cynical and robotic that they don't think anything one person does makes a difference.
Irony is indeed lost on the masses.
Craig doesn't understand this, because he only pickets when the muse wants to take his picture. I watched him do this the other day. I watched him solicit the photo ops, and then -- lo and fucking behold -- he posted about it on his blog. It's self-serving bullshit, in my opinion. And as someone who's out there every fucking day, it's infuriating.
So anybody who wonders why I take issue with Craig, I'm only going to say this one more time and then that's it: he's surfing our waves. He can pretend that he's out there every day. He can pretend that he acknowledges the people who honk for us. He can pretend he's grateful to see people other than writers out there on the line. He can pretend he understands what it's like to be out there, picketing in week five. He can pretend he stood in the rain at Sony.
But he didn't, and he doesn't understand. And it's really infuriating that this is the spokesmodel for our cause.
As for what happened with Craig and Josh, I won't speak for Josh. But I'm not very impressed with the way Craig has handled himself as a human being.
So we're done with Craig now, right? Because next time, I want to talk about TeeVee I love, and other substantial things, like... Andruw Jones to the Dodgers??? How the fuck did THAT happen???
Little Miss Nomad wonders,
You know what I wonder? Who came up with the word "asshat"? I have a post about the possible meanings/origins of this neologism here, but I'd really like your thoughts on it...
I believe it was coined, as was the lovely 'jackhole,' by the World Famous KROQ's Kevin and Bean. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember then making up not-nasty curse words. And anybody who knows who called KROQ "The World Famous KROQ" in the first place gets my two cents from my next DVD sale (I don't get four cents; I have to split it with my writing partner).
np -- "My Biggest Thrill," the Mighty Lemon Drops. From Rhino's four-CD orgy, "The Brit Box."

47 comments:
Not that I was there for more than a few minutes (I’m not in the WGA, unless you mean the Wisconsin Golf Association), but what I saw Craig doing the other day closer resembled “milling about” than anything one would associate with a labor action. Unless it was kissing up to John August that got the United Auto Workers their contract with General Motors in 1937.
And regarding Andruw Jones: Scott Boras happened. Hey, he had to do something to make up for the A-Rod debacle.
I'm with Kay on the Mazin front. Conditionally speaking, I'm done with the place and the dude. It is completely over-run with anti-strike extremists and stooges. Claiming his site isn't a haven for anti-WGA propagandists would be like freerepublic.com claiming to be a bi-partisan website.
And let's be clear - Craig isn't just impartially letting it all happen. He specifically banned me for criticizing someone who was promoting Strike A Deal, a group that is out to weaken the WGA's position in this strike. I know he likes to be judged on his intent, but I can't help it - I'm a small man. I can only judge him by his actions. And his actions have made it clear that the Artful Writer is a home for people who are openly hostile to the WGA strike. That is, of course, his right, and I wouldn't dream of trying to take that away from him. But as someone who's out there every single day, doing the full count, I find it more than a little offensive, personally speaking. (Not as offensive as calling someone an asshole, obviously - that's REALLY bad.)
The good news is that this is no secret, and the population in the comments section has dwindled to a tiny - but vocal - little group of stooges, quislings and sock-puppets.
I said "conditionally" - my feeling is that provided he doesn't go back to posting rumors about the strike (or, what the hell, ME), the only thing my presence - or Kay's - over there will do is increase his traffic.
(On a personal note, I suspect Craig has finally realized that the notion I'd run away from someone who confronted me about my online comments is more than a little absurd).
Lastly, on the subject of attendance, I prefer to be a glass is half full guy - a writer who does an hour or two every few days on the line is better than one who does none at all.
Sorta.
Kay,
Do you ever wonder (whether it's true or not) if this blog would give the impression to showrunners that you would be considered "difficult in the room." I am not (and I stress it) being nasty in any way, shape or form. I'm just curious because sometimes the written word doesn't have the humor, voice inflections or facial expressions that go along with the spoken word. I don't think you should bite your tongue or ever censor yourself but is there a part of you that wonders if this could end up being a problem?
Appreciate your honesty.
Best with the strike.
Just for kicks I offer you ASS HEAD from the OED.
A stupid fellow, a blockhead.
1550 BALE Apol. 61 O absolute ass-heade..and wytlesse ydyote. 1589 Hay any Work 36 As verye an Assehead as John Catercap. 1601 SHAKES. Twel. N. V. i. 212 An Asse~head, and a coxcombe.
Kay - hello.
Josh - I left Mazin's site and protested 3 times directly to Mazin. about the so called banning. I was polite. He ignored me. I have written an email to Kay on my thoughts about Mazin, which I would pass onto you if I had your email. But I don't think you need any bolstering from me. Still, I was one getting some education from your posts.
happy holidays?
Scott Stambler
Note to Anon.
Kay's writing here probably doesn't reflect her diplomacy with her employers.... I on the other hand speak my mind to my employers (when I find that the situation has become impossible.) And I have been fired for doing so. Although many people I know respect honesty.
Not defending Kay per se. Just telling you that the working situation differs from a blog.
I guess it would be inappropriate of me to say that Mazin is a tool, right?
And a 10-time Gold Glove winner in center can't be a bad thing, can it? Now if the Dodgers would part with a few dollars and go after Johan Santana, now that would be some deal...
And are you pissed yet? AMPTP walks away from the table and blames the WGA for not taking an ultimatum...
Oh well, back to the strike line.
The dude I called a Concern Troll on Craig's site says there's no need for me to be insulting. He then goes on to tell us that he'll be at the Strike A Deal rally on Sunday to remind us that there are people being adversely affected by the strike. Which is by no means an insanely insulting comment.
I have posted nothing as offensive and insulting as his assertion that we need reminding of the strike's impact on working people. It's a loathsome assumption.
He may not know any writers, but it's freaking impossible to work in this town and not know crew people personally. Some of us have BEEN crew. Some of us are married to crew. Some of us have children or parents who are crew. Hey, some of us have actually made movies, and know you're dead without your crew.
The portrayal of us implied by that statement is despicable, and significantly more insulting than calling someone a Concern Troll.
Second, it's about as stupid as you can get - "Let's tell people who are out of work because of the strike that there are people who are out of work because of the strike."
Sheer genius.
Scott,
Kay may, by all means, give you my e mail. And thanks.
After two and a half years of being a active, positive participant over at Mazin's site, I'm done . . .
And it's not that I always disagree or agree with him, it's that I think he's made a conscious choice to let the commenters do just what Kay mentions . . . I think Mazin is very hypocritical about it - he allows the anonymous commenters to attack whomever they want.
Ken Levine has this up at his site -
"You are welcome to offer any viewpoint, even one opposing mine. But I have one rule. You must leave your name. There have been some pro-AMPTP comments, all by anonymous commenters. From now on I will delete them all.
I understand there are PR people from the AMPTP side trying to counter the negative press they've been given. One tactic is to offer comments on blogs.
So like I said, you want to argue on their behalf, fine. You can write two pages. But leave a legitimate name. Otherwise, you're gone.
I think that's fair. Even if it's not, it's my blog. But I still feel it's fair.
Thanks."
I think it's a nice way of taking responsibility for what's going on.
I had a post up and had to pull it from my site, due to the fracus Mazin raised about comments (complained about uncivil comments AFTER he called another person a dickhead) . . . and I'm probably gonna stay outa it from now on, but since this was your last Mazin piece, I had to comment on it.
I can say that there is almost no regular over at Mazin's site anymore . . . we all knew each other pretty well in our debates (as Josh O knows) and even when we disagreed with someone, we knew WHO we were disagreeing with.
Now it's overrun with anonymous poopheads. And few, if any, of the regulars are there.
That is all.
Armchair quarterbacking at this point in the game is egregious -- made worse when the poster isn't actually on the line.
I didn't know Josh and Kay until I spent the better part of five weeks with them -- as much as the situation sucks, it's made better by these people (Kay and Josh and Kira and Kay's writing partner and Y and...) being out there every day.
I just wish I could say the same of Craig. Because his posts would have been a lot easier to stomach if the subtext wasn't: "I'm posting this from my trailer between takes."
"Tinfoils" LOL! Welcome to Mindhead. Oh and Kay, I also need Mr. Olson's email addy...this way I can ban him from my inbox. ;-) And just to be clear for those peeps who troll', that was a joke.
But I digress.
Portnoy said...
"Note to Anon:
Kay's writing here probably doesn't reflect her diplomacy with her employers....
Not defending Kay per se. Just telling you that the working situation differs from a blog."
Yup, I can attest to that 100%. For as long as I've known Kay, she's always been the utmost consummate professional and a damn good writer. Both her and her writing partner are the real deal. So if there are any showrunnery types out there, Kay is someone you mos' definitely want in your corner. You won't be disappointed. Oops, my paraffin paper hat (tinfoil is sooo last year) just slid off my head...what was I saying? ;-p
BooM said...
"Armchair quarterbacking at this point in the game is egregious -- made worse when the poster isn't actually on the line."
Speaking of quarterbacking, ya think the Pats are going to win against the 9-3 Steelers? That damn lucky streak of theirs gotsta to end soon...damnit.
BooM said...
"I didn't know Josh and Kay until I spent the better part of five weeks with them -- as much as the situation sucks, it's made better by these people (Kay and Josh and Kira and Kay's writing partner and Y and...) being out there every day."
Yup, yup. Everyone has been so cool and great...considering the shitty, shitty circumstances. But mad props to all for being out there every day. And besides, Kay is so fun to hug. Josh, not so much. Sorry Papa Bear, all you gets from me is a good strong handshake.
Okay, that's all I have to say about the war in Vietnam. Speaking of war, Jack Black gave me his Pick of Destiny to battle against the asshats better known as the AMPTP. Game on, biatches!!
Oh and for the record, I'm posting this from my toilet. No takes necessary.
This is to clarify my blogger account and leave a clever Will Rogers quotation. BTW asshat is NOT in the OED.
i used to blog anonymously about Hollywood. Hence I called myself Portnoy. (That was our name I'm told by internal family legend tellers, ie crazy uncle Harvey) Anyway, i think i fixed that now. Won't be able to tell until i submit this post. Sorry if it's confusing to see Richard Gere's photo. That was a way to increase readership. It worked. That and some interesting stories about Hollywood types I've worked for.
The name is Stambler. I posted on Mazin's with my name, website and email in clear visibility. I understand all the anger and anxiety but that place was... well, getting heard was like trying to conversate (see Urban Dictionary) on an aircraft carrier's tarmac.
And here's Will Rogers
"In Hollywood the woods are full of people that learned to write but evidently can't read. If they could read their stuff, they'd stop writing. "
Will Rogers
I worked in the room on a deeply dysfunctional show with Kay and her partner and found them to be consistently respectful, good team players, and levelheaded, even when the stupidity level in the room rose to epic proportions. And hey, I still get work, even when on one occasion I had to be physically restrained from fistfighting the showrunner's best friend.
"Oh and for the record, I'm posting this from my toilet. No takes necessary."
Your posts are now hard to stomach...
I really really really really really hope the Pats go down this week. I love Roethlisberger, I love Coach Tomlin, I love pretty much everything about the Steelers. So, I really really really really really hope they're the ones to take out the Pats. Really.
First, I think Craig shouldn't have banned Josh from artful writer. Craig is often a big lame-o. (Or 'asshat', as the kids are calling it today).
Second, reading the thread in question, (assuming I'm on the right thread), I don't see anyone insulting you. I see people criticizing your position, which is a big difference, and I'm surprised that you can't see it. And I gotta say, I think the point is valid: that if being critical of leadership is a bad idea during a strike because it might undermine their bargaining power, than it's just as bad to criticize leadership during a negotiation when the *threat* of a strike is the main leverage, since that also might undermine their bargaining power. Of course, you disagree, and that's fine, but, again, I don't see the personal insult you detect.
As for the selling-a-pilot thing, you didn't just say *you* had a bad year and didn't sell a pilot, you said just about nobody who didn't have a deal or staff position sold a pilot. So (again, assuming I'm on the right thread), if people are pointing out that you might be over-generalizing and shouldn't be taken as a credible source, well, you probably disagree, but that doesn't make it a personal attack on you.
Oh, that Mazin. This is the last line from his most recent post:
New post tomorrow. Gonna be a pretty grim one, I’m afraid
If I didn't know better (and I don't), I might think our man Craig actually likes being negative and secretly hopes the sky will fall.
Matty,
The post calling her an asshole was a personal attack on her. The person who called her an asshole wasn't taken to task for this uncivil comment -- though Craig asserts he won't stand for uncivil comments. I'm thinking, at this point, he just won't stand for them if they're against his friends. If they're against Kay or Josh -- they're fine.
Kay,
To bring it back to football:
Vikes v. 'Niners. Current score, 27-0.
Deric,
14-10, five minutes left in this half. Steelers may be losing right now, but I'm feeling lucky. Pats going down?! Hells maybe!
Jake,
Agreed. Frankly, I wish he would just stop posting.
Wow.
The Working AD dude is over on that site painting an extremely rosy and bent picture of the Strike A Deal rally. It's all couched in plausible deniability and blanket statements. Apparently, he knows that everyone there knew the AMPTP had walked away (which is a curious assertion, as the Nip/Tuck PM who spoke made it sound like both sides had left the table), and that he didn't see any anti-WGA signs (I took pictures of a few of the rather blatant ones I saw - one calling us Grinches, another depicting us a Krusty the Clown playing dice with Monty Burns while Homer hung from a crucifix, and one reading "WGA = Wages Garneshed (sic) Away," just to mention a few.
Friend of mine got a video of the whole speech. I'll try to find the time to snag the best quotes from it in the next few days.
I wish Kay could post pics here, cos I got some doozies. And I'm sure she'll tell you more about this delightful sham of a rally later....
You should read what Mazin writes in the comment section of that "grim one" post . . . he feels that, evidently, there's not much the strike can accomplish because they can afford to wait us out no matter what (I'm paraphrasing, but there it is . . .) and it makes you wonder, what happen to his "to the death" remarks?
fucking blogger ate my post again.
Kay, i'm wondering if you got my last email as well....
Josh, my email is
scottydotcom@yahoo.com
website is www.scottydotcom.com
scott stambler
Josh,
I wish you weren't banned. I wish Kay would come back. And I wish Kay could post those pictures. I wish the Steelers hadn't lost. I'm glad the Vikes didn't.
By the way, rather than rely on hearsay on the subject of signs that were hostile to the WGA, here are links to a few from today's rally. Anyone who'd like to post this over on Mazin's site in response to Working AD's spin would have my gratitude:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-5.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-4.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-3.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-2.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/badcog_photos/web-1.jpg
Here's the thing, does it really matter if anyone is "with" the WGA as far as a why writers went on strike?
The answer is, of course, an emphatic, "NO!"
Mazin, the AMPTP trolls, the BTL people, the DGA, even SAG, the fans, could be against the strike (they're not, well not all of them anyway) and it wouldn't matter. Writers went on strike because it was long overdue. A bad deal like in '88 cannot be allowed to happen again.
And it won't. Right is right. Standing up for ourselves is the right thing to do. And until this ends with a fair agreement, an iron clad, signed, sealed, and delivered deal, I'll be walking that picket line.
And all the Mazin-like negativeness and the anti-WGA comments won't effect the goals of the writers. United we stand, divided we fall, right?
Mazin thinks you should give up picketing and get new people to negotiate, among other 'helpful' suggestions. How the frick can people like John August associate themselves with this guy?
Mazin's desperate for the strike to fail, and all to feed his fat little ego. What a dick!
Mazin and How to Get There From Here:
aka
Mazin is Insane
All I gotta say is Craig is flipping nuts. And I'm starting to think he's actually a AMPTP member in disguise.
What's the matter with you people?!
Craig The Glorious has posted the ultimate solution to all your fret:
Bend over!
It's so simple, and yet none of you can see it. All the WGA has to do is give in to all demands! Surely the AMPTP would reward such cowerdom with a whopping deal on all new media!!
Oh, and now that Craig has time to join the picket lines... please, stop picketing, because really, what a silly thing to do when you're on strike. Sheesh.
I tried to comment earlier today but it did not go through. Hopefully, this will make it.
I reposted Josh's comments on Mazin's site earlier today, and I posted the links to his photos.
People can decide for themselves, but I'm not the person some people seem to think I am.
Working AD,
Your characterization of the Strike A Deal rally was as disengenuous as the rally itself. It was stated that both sides had left the table, when, in fact, we're there right now. And the place was littered with signs that were openly hostile to the WGA.
But let's be real here - it's inconceivable that you could fail to see how equating both sides in this matter is an attack on the Guild and shores up the AMPTP. You're not as dumb as some of the stumps who post on their insipid website. So take this opportunity - admit that the organization is a joke at best, an outright fraud at worst.
The turnout was beyond pathetic. 500 people? Of below the line crew and others? That would be like having a writer's rally where only 10 people showed up. And they promoted the hell out of that thing. The reason nobody showed is that most below the line crew are smart enough to be able to see through such obvious claptrap.
Craig threw me off his site for insulting one of his guest - you - when I suggested that you were a Concern Troll. I would humbly submit that characterizing the writers on strike as being Grinches, or as the crucifiers of po' working folks is significantly more insulting on a personal level than calling someone who disengenuously promotes a pro-AMPTP agenda a Concern Troll.
You posted your characterization of the rally, and I posted mine. Difference is, I backed mine up with facts, and there's no doubt where *I* really stand on this issue.
I know how people feel about Craig on this site, but his latest post, however much people might not like it, does make a lot of sense. I left a longer comment about this on his site, but basically, there are only two reasons to picket: Exposure and to stop production. With shows in reruns and 99.9 percentage of America won't ever see the picket line, picket lines are not effective in gaining exposure outside of Los Angeles. And since Los Angeles is an industry town, picketing isn't really raising any awareness inside Los Angeles. As for stopping production, I haven't heard of any films stopping production because of the picketing. What's stopping production is the writers not writing. In essence, I think Craig is right on this issue. I know a lot of people hate to hear this, but if someone can explain to me how picketing has actually helped- really helped -then I would love to hear it.
TO me, picketing, in this instance, is a make work project to make strikers feel like they are doing something. That's nice, but it isn't very productive.
And Craig did mention, on his site, that Josh would be allowed to re-register again, if he cut out the personal attacks. Take that as you will, but there you go.
Wow, Craig's allowing Josh to come back on a leash...
He truly is glorious in all his, err...glory I guess.
Seriously, tim w., it's comments like yours that remind me why it's still important to post counter arguments on Craig's site - people actually gullibly gobble down the poison he feeds. Like popcorn. There, I said it, gullible gobblers munching on poisonous popcorn.
Tim,
Wow. Really? What part of "Let's capitulate" made the most sense to you?
Josh, I disagree with you about the intentions of that rally, and I disagree with the characterization that somehow most of the people there were anti-WGA. I didn't see that. But I did take the time to post your photos and the comment that went with them on Mazin's site. So if I'm a "concern troll" and such a crummy guy, why would I do that?
I have no problem with disagreeing with someone. My only issue was with the name calling. I did not and have not done so with you or anyone else. And I will not. That may be AD training - I'm used to being yelled at by everyone. I just don't like that being aimed at me. And to be fair, I responded the same way when someone lobbed some really offensive garbage at Patrick M.
And I don't know Mazin. I've never even met the man. All I know is that he let me post on his site, as Kay has. And I honestly thought I would get thrown off here for not agreeing. I personally think you should post there again - people there could use your voice.
Johnny,
Reread what I said. I said "Take that as you will". No claims on what that meant. No judgment. I'll leave that to you.
Josh,
I didn't say I agreed with everything Craig said. I read comments that echoed my own opinions on those subjects, so didn't feel the need to repeat them. I do believe what I said about the picketing though, and, believe it or not, it has nothing to do with what Craig said. It's something I've said in the past about picketing. Picketing for picketing sake is stupid. I think that's exactly what is happening now. Stopping picketing is not capitulating, unless the whole idea of striking is to be able to go out and picket. If that's the case, I've REALLY got the issues wrong.
I know some people here might think I'm simply a Mazin stooge, but if you know me, you would know I am far from anyone's stooge. I generally don't speak out against anything he says because I would simply be adding my voice to a very large chorus, and I also happen to agree with more that he says than many of you do.
And believe it or not, Josh, I would actually enjoy having you back on Craig's site. When not on a vendetta (which I believe you were on), you can be insightful and your posts enjoyable to read. I believe the best way to learn about a subject is to hear opinions that vary from your own. I just think there's a difference between expressing your opinion and sniping. An opinion is something you can debate intelligently. Sniping simply leads to insults.
I call IA shenanigans on this. Outta nowhere, a grasstops organization holds a rally, has signs made up, has a plan to break strike solidarity, and I'm to assume it's from the ground up, when America's premier strikebreakers and anti-labor law firms are participating in negotiations? Sure.
The IA, after almost shooting itself in the foot by interfering with Local One's successful labor negotiations on Broadway, now rows against the WGA's plans, and steps up the noise just when the WGA negotiators, in a response to the AMPTP's intransigence, puts representation of reality and animated show writing on the table? Mere coincidence? Riiiight.
Working AD,
"I disagree with you about the intentions of that rally"
I've run into this same wall with Craig, and I gotta admit - it's fascinating. I'm not talking intent. I'm talking about actions. Children use intent as an excuse. "Don't judge me by the fact that I broke Mrs. Jones's window, judge me by the fact that it was an accident."
Well, guess what - Mrs. Jones's window is busted, and someone's gotta pay for it.
Grow the fuck up.
The ACTIONS of the Strike A Deal rally are unmistakable. They may love the WGA. They may feel they owe everything they have and all they are to us. But their ACTIONS say something different altogether.
"I disagree with the characterization that somehow most of the people there were anti-WGA."
Wow. Why not address what I said, instead of these straw men? MANY were. There were also many openly pro-WGA people there. But the message of the rally, the one spewed by the PM from Nip/Tuck was a blatantly dishonest misrepresentation of the situation, one that paints us in a bad light, and eases the responsibility of the AMPTP. Not arguing this with you anymore. You're wrong. Belligerently wrong, true. But wrong, nonetheless.
"I have no problem with disagreeing with someone. My only issue was with the name calling. I did not and have not done so with you or anyone else"
Asked and answered. Equating us with the AMPTP, endorsing an organization that lies about the strike was significantly more insulting than calling you a Concern Troll.
Which, by the way, I still think you are. Swim like duck, quack like duck, etc. Sorry if that upsets you. Perhaps if you hadn't given such a glowing endorsement to an event at which I was portrayed as crucifying working people while playing dice with corporate greedheads, I might look more kindly on your comments. I'm funny that way, CT.
"I honestly thought I would get thrown off here for not agreeing. "
Absurd.
"I personally think you should post there again - people there could use your voice."
My voice is exceptionally well represented over there at the moment. There are plenty of people speaking out against the stooges and quislings, and the fact is, when I post over there, traffic goes up. I'll pass.
Tim W,
"When not on a vendetta (which I believe you were on), you can be insightful and your posts enjoyable to read."
Call it a vendetta, but you'll find that there's a hell of a lot of people who are getting it now. I was that asshole who saw what Craig was early in the game, and knew that if this shit ever came to a point where it mattered, he was not going to be a friend to writers. Events have proven me right. Sorry if I'm gloating a bit, but I took a shitload of abuse from some corners for not letting up on the guy, and now that he's proven to be every bit the... thing... that he is, I'm gonna bask in a bit of "I told you so," even though it's fucking tragic that I was right.
Okay Josh. I have done what I can to show you that I'm not the bad guy here. I really do believe that the WGA has the right to a fair contract. And I really do believe that the AMPTP are acting like bullies. I also happen to believe that the crews that have been left unemployed have a right to voice their own opinions. Whether those opinions disagree with you or with me.
I asked you to stop with the name calling, and you then continued it.
I admit that it does upset me that I did exactly what you asked here, and the response I got was another attack. For saying an opinion that is different than yours.
I'll give you one piece of information, since you have said you doubt my integrity. My name is Kevin. I worked 7 years on JAG. Look it up on imdb, and you'll only fine one within the AD area of the crew. (And I worked on more than 130 episodes, which is a bit more than the 6 that apparently show up on imdb) I have also worked on many other shows. And to answer your earlier statement, I know many writers and have worked with them. One is Alan Sereboff, who is currently doing the "Speechless" segments. That information alone is enough for you to do damage if that's your intention. I'm at the point of no longer thinking it matters. What's anyone from the AMPTP going to remember about a blog post next year?
And I don't think that I was the only reason Craig banned you. I'm sure you'll respond with more, but I think I should let it be at this point. Have the last word and let these guys know what you think.
Josh,
I think this is where you and I differ. I don't believe that Craig is not a friend of the writer, he just goes about it in a different way than you. I assume you don't believe that you have to agree with you in order to be a friend of the writer.
I think you may be more passionate about it.
Platoon is my favourite movie of all time. I love it for many different reasons, many of which have to do with filmmaking details that would be lost on the average viewer. I know a guy who loves it because it was a great war flick, but thinks Apocalypse Now is a better movie. He's not wrong because we disagree why it's a great movie. Nor is he wrong because I don't like Apocalypse Now a lot more than me. Hopefully this analogy makes sense to you. It's not magic cake one, but, you know...
Tim W
About Craig. He's a friend to Craig. If he had a sense of decency he would not have posted what I specifically told him was private. (it was inside a post that appeared to be moderated. so I was errantly using the opportunity to send him a 'private' note about the Josh ban, about the blog, blah blah,blah. He DID respond. He said "Comments aren't moderated"
Oh, clearly Apocalypse Now is far superior to Platoon in every way and this fact should spur you to rethink your fallacious proposition. Your friend is right.
AD,
"I asked you to stop with the name calling, and you then continued it."
Mother of God. I have at least acknowledged that you feel insulted. You pretend that I haven't said at least three times that the messages sent by Strike a Deal are profoundly insulting. You just breeze over that because you have no response to it.
"I admit that it does upset me that I did exactly what you asked here, and the response I got was another attack. For saying an opinion that is different than yours. "
No. You got attacked for insulting people.
"I'll give you one piece of information, since you have said you doubt my integrity. My name is Kevin."
I do not doubt you are a real person. I also do not doubt that you are promoting an agenda that is - whether you acknowledge it or not - in opposition to the Guild and our strike. That's certainly your right. It's also my right to identify what you're doing.
"That information alone is enough for you to do damage if that's your intention."
Jesus. I'm not Mazin. I don't actually try to hurt people's reputations offline. Your paranoia is unjustified. Take a run at Craig or one of his pals some time, though, and watch them take it into the real world. It's an eye opener.
----
Tim,
As ever, it goes to intent. It's more than possible that Craig really does care about other writers. His actions, however, tell a different tale.
Platoon's a great piece of narrative filmmaking, but Apocalypse Now is a work of art, man. I will kill you.
Scott,
"About Craig. He's a friend to Craig. If he had a sense of decency he would not have posted what I specifically told him was private. (it was inside a post that appeared to be moderated. so I was errantly using the opportunity to send him a 'private' note about the Josh ban, about the blog, blah blah,blah. He DID respond. He said "Comments aren't moderated""
You lost me with the first part, but as for leaving a private message inside a comment, I wouldn't blame Craig for that, if I understand correctly. Comments aren't moderated on his site. They post immediately. If he chooses, he can remove them, but he doesn't see the comments before they are posted. It's different on Kay's site. She sees the comments before they are posted, so you can send her a private message through the comments section, and I have.
Josh,
I think it all goes to how you see his actions. You see them as harming writers. I don't.
Josh and Scott,
I knew a Platoon vs Apocalypse Now analogy would get this reaction because most believe that Apocalypse Now is a better film. I don't. I realize I'm in the minority here. That was the point of my analogy. There's more than one way to like something, and there's more than one way to look at something.
Hamburger Hill.
Best. 'NAM flick. Ever!
The Losers. Bad Bill Smith and a bunch of Hell's Angels pals go back to Nam to rescue one of their biker pals.... and they do it on choppers.
Doesn't hold up for shit, but when I was 11, the damn thing rocked my ass sideways.
Whatever the hell that means...
Tim,
Uh, yeah. Got the point of the analogy. Lighten up, bubba.
"Lighten up, bubba."
Said the kettle to the pot.
Tim
I am familiar with Craig's site. I had earlier posted a bunch of links and the post didn't go. some spam filter or something. (acts like a moderated post)
since there was so much shit being thrown over there I had then thought that Mazin turned moderation on.(because of the post with the links didn't go up.)
SO, IN THE NEXT POST I wrote it thinking it was on. I told Craig, in my post that it was private. To Craig.
Not knowing for sure if moderation was on I kept that in mind while I wrote. I asked him to make peace with Josh. I can't remember what else. I think I congratulated him on finishing his film. That kind of stuff. Oh right... I told him I wish I had the balls that Olson had. I told Mazin he had balls too. I told him I go about things differently. I wish to make peace and begged that he re think his ban.
I addressed him PERSONALLY. moderation or not.
He had to read my post because he responded to it. BUT he chose to ignore EVERYTHING I had written in the post EXCEPT TO SAY that Moderation was not turned on.
I think that's shitty blogging. I think it's disingenuous. (which appears to be the word of the day)
If that doesn't make sense to you, email and I'll figure a different way to explain. I'm tired and cranky, but not being insincere.
BUT - Tim
Your insistence on liking Platoon over a masterpiece - that's your choice but i wouldn't toss that around at parties. If you tossed Paths Of Glory vs Apocalypse Now
Or The Deer Hunter, or The Cranes Are Flying, or Mrs Miniver, or the Sam Fuller film I can't recall, Or Hell In The Pacific, or Bridge Over The River Kwai less the dance number....
Scott,
I understand that you THOUGHT moderation was on, but I think I recall the comment you left, and I don't remember it being something that I would have thought he should delete. I sent him a couple of messages by email (he responded to one of them), which probably should have been the way to go. Since Kay doesn't post her email address, and I know she reads the comments before they are posted, I felt secure in sending her a private message through the comments here.
As for Platoon, I've had NUMEROUS discussions about it with many people. It's a hot button issue, for sure. Hey, I liked Apocalypse Now, just not as much. I know. It's blasphemous, but I don't tend to hide my opinions.
Tim,
I wished the user had the power to delete but it was added a few days later. Even then it didn't work properly. Truth is I really didn't care if my post was deleted or not.I felt a little vulnerable but that was all. I REALLY wanted a response from Craig. That's all I've been trying to say. It seems that the only response one gets at that site is to get personal. If I had Josh's balls and knew how to emulate his style I would. That's not my style. I didn't have Mazin's email. I remember it was up several blog-incarnations back. I WOULD HAVE USED THE EMAIL gladly!
I realize part of my wanting a response stems from common courtesy, and ego. It reminds me of the scene in Barton Fink where John Goodman gets pissed of and yells YOU DON'T LISTEN.
The more I stayed on that blog the better picture I got of a guy with whom I began reading with respect but ended up feeling frustrated and annoyed. And the banning was the final straw for me.
Also, my anxiety level was rising too much to hang there.
Now - film appreciation
I had a friend once who enjoyed Cocoon 2. I never forgave him.
I'd seen people so afraid of Oliver Stone that instead of asking him to move his car because some kid wanted to go to lunch - about 8 guys came out of the dubbing stage and picked his car up, moved it aside. True story.
If you haven't seen any of the films I mentioned, have a look and tell me if they are any better than Platoon. I do know some directors that I have worked with that might toss you out of the room with your Platoon defense.
Have a nice weekend. i'm heading for an AM oral surgery tomorrow.
scott
PS KAY - I DO SO WISH YOU'D TURN OFF THE WORD VERIFICATION. Google needs to lighten it up instead of making it a puzzle.
Scott,
I've never felt that message boards (or similar) were really a good indicator of what a person is like. Generally, they're are confrontational for their very purpose. I used to post once in a while on a basketball message board and more than once I was called overly serious. If you know me, that's as far from the truth as you can get. If anything, I'm the other way. Only serious when I absolutely have to be.
I'm going to forget that you compared my liking Platoon to your friend liking Cocoon 2, but I have seen most of the the other films you mentioned, and for the most part, thought they were fantastic. Something about Platoon hit a chord with me, though. I think it's Oliver Stone's best (obviously), and have been very disappointed with everything he's done since JFK. As for being tossed out of a room, I've never had anyone dare to do that, and I'm sure there are many who would pay to see someone try. Especially over something like my opinion of a movie.
The story about him is priceless. He's definitely never been on my list of people I'd like to meet, from the stories I've heard about him.
Post a Comment